S5E10 - The Inner Revolution with Nate Smith
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Shawn Buttner: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution in the podcast where we interview people about what they nerd out about so we can ignite your passion and inspire you to follow what you find meaningful. Today's guest is one of the most experienced fellow certified high performance coaches in the world.
Having done close to 5,000 coaching sessions with everyone from stay-at-home parents, spouses, going through divorce, CEOs and like aerospace, other coaches and everything in between, and he's learned a lot about what people want and what they need. So after years of struggling with difficult emotions, conflict and self-doubt, he learned how to look deeply into himself and explore, discover and unstitch from so much of what was getting stuck. So today, Nathan uses the same powerful tools that helped him to help clients experience the [00:01:00] profound impact of work so they can show up more wisely, skillfully, and compassionately for their missions and relationships, to create a life that embodies their gifts fully and to have the impact they desire.
So with that, I am very excited to introduce my guest, Nathan Smith. Nathan, welcome to the podcast.
Nathan Smith: Hey, Shawn. Hey everyone. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here. I love what you say, having people we geek out about stuff and this is definitely an area that I talk so much about and I love to talk about it.
So I'm excited to be here.
Shawn Buttner: Excellent. I am super stoked for you to be here too. With that said the first question I'd like to open up with is basically what are we talking about today? And that is, what would you call your personal meaningful revolution?
Nathan Smith: Yes. And we were talking before the show a little bit and, I love the name of your podcast the Meaningful like revolution.
Because for me [00:02:00] what's meaningful is the inner revolution and the inner revolution. And my view is my mind is really all about how can I deeply understand myself in, not just in superficial ways, but like really at my depths and really pull back all the layers and really start to understand all the operations.
Where is everything coming from? Like, where does all this stuff that I'm reacting to? Because one of the things that I've found is that the more we, take action from a place of, let's say a lack of clarity or I like to call conflict is action taken from a place of conflict is only gonna create more conflict.
And , I'm sure everyone listening can, identify with some example in their life. When they were confused or they, knew something they were doing was coming from a place of contradiction or confusion. And after they did it, they're like, Ugh, I'm even more confused now than I was before
And [00:03:00] so, for me, it's really been this, long journey of understanding myself better and understanding like what's driving me, what's moving me, and how can I take action from a place that is deeply aligned instead of from a place of who knows what from my conditioning, from my biases, from all that kind of stuff.
So, that's been my journey and, that's what I continue to work on because it's a lifelong journey.
Shawn Buttner: Definitely. I know having done a lot of work myself, on trying to Yeah. To self-discover. Like it's one of the things you get, you'll spend your whole life doing. I, firmly believe so. Yeah. I am curious though, could you maybe share a story about maybe when you operated from that sense of conflict, took an action and ended up more confused and maybe how did you get onto the path of self-discovery?
Nathan Smith: Yeah [00:04:00] that's a great question and I dunno how far you want me back to go, but I'm gonna go this far back. . Okay. And not a lot of people know my story, but when I was when I was 16 is when I had one of the most defining moments in my life. And, that was when I had I've been out all, night.
It was a summer, summertime was August. And 16 year olds like, to just go out and have fun and not be home. And so I was out doing the stuff that I was doing and and I came home. It was a weeknight and I came home late at night, so at nine o'clock and. There's cars and all kinds of people in the driveway.
And I was like just that sinking feeling hit my gut you know when something's wrong, when something's off. And so I slowly just pulled up the driveway and and I got outta the car. My dad was standing right outside of the car, and I get out and he just like steps right up to me and he says your brother was in a car accident.
He didn't make it. And just [00:05:00] my whole nervous system shut down my whole, it felt like everything just shut down. I just went numb. And and that was a, obviously a really impactful moment because it defined a lot of how I moved forward for many years in terms of being shut down, being stoic not, letting myself really dig into those emotions I have to be the strong one.
I have to pretend everything's okay. And so I learned really early on to put on a mask, right? To just put on this face. And, that kind of led from one step to the next. And because I was already not really being who I was it's okay, I have to be this person and that leads to the next, okay, I have to be this person.
I have to be this person. And I just ended up, and again, it's not all bad because our lives are exactly what they're supposed to be. But I ended up getting into a career that I did it just because I needed something to do. It wasn't really what I wanted to do. [00:06:00] And I found myself many years later in my early thirties, I was like, I don't want to be doing this.
I want to be helping people. was in the corporate world and pharmaceuticals. I'm like, I don't want to be doing this. Because I just kept taking these actions that weren't aligned and I was learning a lot. I had started practicing yoga when I was about 28, and that's when I really started to open up my world.
I really started to look more deeply at myself, look more deeply at that self-discovery journey that we talked about. I'd gotten into some other healing work too. And that really helped me crack open a little bit. I started men's work, that was another huge part of my journey,
And so it was just like one thing led to the next, and I started to learn these different practices and get in around these certain people that would really help me crack open and really force me to look at myself. And it's all these different experiences that that led me up to this.
And it's just every change [00:07:00] that I've had in my life. And some are bigger, some are smaller. The last two years has been just an incredibly huge shift for me because I just completely turned my life upside down. And and it really forced me to go inward for, a long time, for a good year. I was just looking inward at myself and looking at my patterns and oh my God, how did I end up here?
And what are the actions that I took and just all these things I'm sure your audience can resonate with. And so I just went into the cave and I'm like, I gotta figure this out. . I gotta look at myself. And, that was really impactful and that's where a lot of what I'm doing now, the work that I teach now and coach people through now came from just what I've done the last two years.
Right on.
Shawn Buttner: Yeah. That, phrase, how did I get here? , I think is one of the, yeah. Driving questions. And I, in the meaningful revolution space [00:08:00] that I ask people or I think that's the, a pivotal moment. I remember being two years into my first career as a software engineer working for Walmart corporate, and it was a great learning experience.
It wasn't the big tech company I was hoping, like I'd get into after college, but it was, yeah, I did the responsible things. I had student loans and, all that. But you get to a point where for me it was overwhelm and stress. And I'm like, there's gotta be a better way to live than to be constantly walking on eggshells, constantly on edge, constantly exhausted yeah, there's a better way.
And that, that's what led me to high performance and High Performance Academy. Yeah. And, out of it. So yeah. That, phrase is one thing that, that stuck out. And two thanks for, sharing that story. [00:09:00] It also, I think you mentioned like men's group and men's, like work,
Nathan Smith: men's work.
Yep. And,
Shawn Buttner: and grief and how people deal with grief is such a powerful Yeah. It's a powerful emotion that manifests in really weird ways for everyone in, a unique way. And like to hear that grief impacting you and echoing until you, you're like, oh, I gotta. Working on this. It is really powerful.
So thanks for sharing
Nathan Smith: that. Yeah, no, my pleasure. And you're absolutely right. It's it's our ability to work with our emotions and what's coming up is, so important. And, I think people, it's, in my experience, often don't give it enough enough time, enough focus. I mean I did it cuz I didn't have a choice.
I just got to this point. I'm like, I gotta do something cuz again, that question you said, how did I get here [00:10:00] and I gotta do something. And that was we all had these moments that forced us into a new way of exploring, right? Because we have to get creative, we have to find some way forward and, again I ended up into this and I didn't go into this yet, but I ended up as a coach quite by accident.
It was I was working for a small business and I was trying to learn marketing cuz I was never. A marketer. So I went to this event and Brendan was just a guest speaker. It wasn't even his event. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go check this out. And I'm like, I really like this guy. He is got great energy.
And then so I ended up going to, to one of his events the fall, like six months later. And that's when he said, Hey, you can become certified in, this coaching. And I was like, oh my God. Yeah, I'd love to it. It was like a full body. Yes. And right. And that's one of those things that I think the more that we understand our emotions, the more and [00:11:00] the more clarity that we can find, the more of that.
Like the more we like, get away all of the, all the clutter then we're available to hear those full body. Yes. Yeah. Whenever they come in. But when we've got all this confusion and all this like contradiction, it's really hard to be able to hear that stuff. And so working with people to help them really sort through their emotions I would call it emotional literacy.
And really being able to understand what's going on here. What is, what's the information that these emotions are trying to tell me or teach me? What is the wisdom within this? Because oftentimes we suppress them. We just push them away or, we escape them. Let me find some form of escape.
And we never find the wisdom. We never connect with the wisdom. And again, we end up repeating patterns because we haven't learned the lesson yet. .
Shawn Buttner: Absolutely. So I'm thinking about emotional literacy and, [00:12:00] that full body Yes. Experience. The first question I had is how do you know a authentic full body Yes.
Versus a cluttered full body? Yes. So like, my, the example that comes to mind that's imperfect is sure, should I eat this whole basket of cookies? And a whole body goes yes. For that moment. And then you do it and then you feel bad, right? So you don't wanna follow that type of emotional truth, but knowing that a situation is right for you, a person is right for you or not, like, how do you know the difference or how did you figure out the difference?
Or did you even, was that even a problem for you? You just already accepted that,
Nathan Smith: feeling? No, that's a great question. Because it can be a hard thing to do. And, how do we understand the difference between just are we just projecting our desire in terms of what [00:13:00] we want?
Like the full bag of cookies? Yeah. So what's the difference between a projected desire and actually no. This is a yes. And know, I'll be honest, there's no easy answer to that question. But what I would say is that we all have that, feeling. We all have that voice. That knows if there's fear.
We all have the voice of fear. We all have that voice of doubt. And if that voice of fear or doubt is, creeping in then it's obvious. It's obviously not a full body. Yes. And part of it has to be, are we present enough with ourselves in this moment? And are we clear enough, for let's say that channel to be clear, right. For that Yes. To come through. And like for, example, when when the opportunity came up for me, there was a it's not that, there wasn't like, oh, like this costs a lot of money. [00:14:00] There's an investment here. But that didn't matter. So it's not that necessarily you don't think critically about, oh, is this a smart thing or not? And you don't have to think through the logistics of something. But that's afterwards, right? That's after the thing that comes first is just that feeling. It just shoots through you, . It's, almost like it's instantaneous, right? That's how because for me it was instantaneous. I just knew this is it. It's if your no comes after, right? If a note comes after, because now your mind is engaged, right? And as soon as your mind is engaged, right now you're operating on another system, let's say.
Right? And that's where the fear, the doubt, uncertainty. That's where that can come in.
Shawn Buttner: Definitely. Oh, I love that. It's reminding me of some work [00:15:00] I did. I took a course years ago from Edmond Pagan where he talked about essentially, it was like how the mine works. And he talked about different currencies that we operate in based on a model that's not really great for the brain anymore.
It's been this proven, but I like the idea that like, we have an emotional currency. We have an intellectual currency and like a physical currency, and they all have different interests and things that they shy away from. So
Nathan Smith: would say they all have different wisdom, right? Yes. Yeah.
They all have, different wisdom. And, if we can, and that's why I often tell people like, we have to create space in our lives. We have to create spaciousness so that we can have the, quietness to be able to hear what that wisdom is. And part of what I would call intuition is how all those systems work together.
Yeah. The emotions and the [00:16:00] mind and our physical body. How do all these things and our senses, the things that we're picking up consciously and unconsciously, how do all those work together to arrive at a particular answer? Yeah,
Shawn Buttner: definitely. That's basically where I, was going with that.
I guess the next best question I have is how do you develop that muscle of trusting that intuition, which is that, that feeling getting your, mind on board. The fear Hey, I'm gonna move cross country and move in with a old college roommate and, just see how, where life takes me, like this feels right in the moment.
I'm really like, excited and then freaked out did I just blow up my life? this is actually that's how I got out to [00:17:00] California is a buddy say, Hey, sleep on my couch for as long as you need to get settled and let's make this happen. Yeah. So how do you Address the fears that come up or either like physically or I'm going to ruin myself financially or I don't know if I can do it. So it's like a self worth thing. Like how do you think through that with somebody?
Nathan Smith: Yeah. It's part of, it can be starting to separate out the different pieces. Yeah. In terms of the, okay, how's that feel physically in your body? What are the thoughts that come up?
What are the emotions? And you can start to work through each of these different, let's say systems, right? These different intelligences and, you can break them down piece by piece and start to understand them. And, but really what I would say is, so much of this is [00:18:00] about understanding relationship and, when I say relationship, what I mean is you have to understand your relationship to.
To other people, you have to understand your relationship to things. You have to understand your relationship to the ideas and beliefs that you might be holding onto. And so what I help people do is really start to look more deeply at those relationships and what comes up for them. And and the big one, as we said, is we, tend to make most of our decisions, if not all of them emotionally.
And then we justify them rationally, after the fact, right? So, the big piece is really helping people, like I said before, gather the wisdom from that, from the emotion that emotional literacy, and really understand what is this trying to tell you. Right? And, people aren't gonna probably like this answer, but one of, one of my kind of mentors [00:19:00] his, secret to life was he said, I don't mind what happens.
And that's a big one. That's a big one. If, cuz a lot of this is gonna depend on what a person, how a person wants to live their life and what they wanna believe. Like for me, I believe that all these things that happen, everything that happens is an opportunity for me to discover more about myself, right?
And if I approach life that way, then yes, I want to think intelligently through my decisions and, my choices and so forth. But if I really believe that I'm gonna learn from everything, right? Then what I'm gonna do is I'm going to the goal is to try and make what I would call it's, being integrally intelligent, right?
Integrally intelligent. And all that means is [00:20:00] can I take intelligent action that is based off of, again integrating all the different parts and aspects of my life. A lot of us make decisions based on one component, right? Or maybe a couple, but we have to look at the totality of our life and our situation.
And if it's helpful for, the audience here's one of my favorite questions and I'll tell you why in a second, is what does this situation demand? love that. What does the situation demand? And, what you'll notice is nowhere in that sentence, do you see the word I, it's not what's the, or me, it's not what's demanded of me.
It's not what do I need to do, because that puts the focus too much on myself. And when I put the focus too much on me, that's when fear comes in. And when fear comes in, that's when the the vision that maybe is way out here starts to like, go like this [00:21:00] and, I can't see anymore. And I'm no longer using that intelligent action because I'm not really looking, I can only see one small sliver. So if I ask that question it's a wonderful question just to take you out of it and get another perspective on the situation. Because as as being a high performance coach, so much of our clients struggle with is fear.
They won't take action because they're just afraid and it slows them down or stops them completely. They won't even chase their dreams. They won't chase what's most important to them. Yeah. And so, that's a key one that we have to start to, to unwind is to really start to understand what's at the root of that fear.
And again, that's gonna come back to really looking at your relationships in your relationship to again, yourself, people, things, ideas. And it's a step by step process. and and it can be [00:22:00] scary as he said, you've done a lot of, work I'm reminded of this one time, there's a guy who was, he came to me and he was like, wanted to do men's work and he was all excited.
He's ah, I wanna do men's work. I wanna do men's work. And, just the level of almost excitement in his being, I was like, I don't think you know what men's work is about , because it's not easy. It's not something you're like big smile on my face, like I'm gonna do men's work. It's oh crap, I'm gonna do some men's work
This is it's you need courage to go into this kind of stuff. And and I, that's why I just, I love my clients because they have the courage to say yes to this process, right? They have the courage to say yes to themselves, to try new things, to be scared out of their mind and to still take action anyway.
It's just a blessing to, to be able to do this work.
Shawn Buttner: I [00:23:00] wholeheartedly agree. And there's nothing more magical, I think in a coaching. Like the days where I'm happiest are when I do a coaching session and can help someone turn the light bulb on. And it's literally I'm sure you've seen it where they're oh, okay, got it.
Yes.
Nathan Smith: Yeah, that's
Shawn Buttner: That's a good day. And one of my, favorite things about coaching is helping develop tho those
Nathan Smith: moments. Yeah. Let me give you a simple three step formula. That's a really cool Yeah. Powerful formula for clarity. So when, first of all, when you're seeking clarity, you're like, ah I don't really know what to do.
And I don't know what direction to go in. Again. Give yourself space, get a, quiet space. do your best to clear out anything that might be extraneous or anything that might be [00:24:00] creating like additional stress, right? So just put yourself, set up your environment for clarity to come in.
So that's number one. And then as part of the the three step process is you ask yourself, first and foremost is you can start to look at, is it time for this yet? Is it time for me to get clarity on this? Because oftentimes we're just being impatient, , right? And it's, we just have to wait.
Like what we might be in a time, like I was for a couple years ago it was a period of gestation, right? It was a period I just had to go inward and I had to of sit in my stuff for a while, right? It wasn't a time to get clarity on what, am I here to do? Or anything like that.
So, . do a check in with yourself is it time? Or do I need a little more patience here? That's number one. [00:25:00] Number two is, am I trying to get clarity in the right area? Because oftentimes we will intentionally look for clarity in one space because we're actually maybe avoiding another one, right?
And say, oh, let me come over here and get clarity, right? So again, be honest with yourself about, okay, is this actually where I need clarity or is there somewhere else that actually needs it first, right? Is there a higher priority here? Is there something that I'm avoiding, right? So that's number two.
And then number three, you can check in And this happens so often, like I love when I can catch clients out in this is they'll, tell me, oh I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. And And my style varies a little bit. Oftentimes I'll just get pretty firm with 'em and I'll say bullshit you know exactly what to do and you don't like the answer.[00:26:00]
And they're just like, Ugh, it's sunk by battleship So, check in with yourself and just so you know, what do I actually already have the answer, but I just don't like it and so I'm looking for something else. So once those things can be established, that's gonna set you up for just a much cleaner space with rich for clarity to, arise.
Shawn Buttner: Yeah. I love that. I love those questions. And I'm struck cuz I know in my coaching practice that second question is, am I trying to get clarity in the right area? A lot of times I find that if you're so focused on your career that your big unlock in breakthrough is actually taking care of your health or getting more sleep or being more present at home.
It's these adjacent areas where you're, you've lost some focus and lost some [00:27:00] balance in it. So I love that question for that reason.
Nathan Smith: Yeah. And if, you know if any of anyone who's watching or listening, like if you're struggling in this area just reach out to me. We'll set up a 15 minute call, we can jump on and we can just power for there's a lot that can happen in 15 minutes when you're really focused.
So I'm, that's what I'm here to do. I'm here to help. Right on.
Shawn Buttner: Awesome. Yeah, we'll have a, link in the, show notes for the listeners for that 50 minutes. So very generous of you for that. My pleasure. The offer. So I'm, curious then as you've done work, inner work, are there a couple of like big pivot points where there was like, you're struggling with some part of it and then oh, I, you got the clarity or the unlock of oh, I've been operating this [00:28:00] way, or I need to approach it in this, way in order to move forward.
Nathan Smith: Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you, one of the biggest ones is really looking at, is very fairly recent for me. And when I told you before it's this is an ever present journey, , we're always, yeah, we're always working through. And as one of my mentors says truth happens moment to moment.
And, so this truly is okay let me look, And I found that in this journey of coaching is. I've really been trying to get clear who, are my people? Who do I love to work with? And and I really noticed it just hit me quite profoundly as I was of going through, and it was one of those things too, and I think your audience will resonate with this, is when we talked before about well, how do you know if it's a full body?
Yes. There's also that, little part of you, [00:29:00] and it might be really subtle, but there's a resistance. Right? That's probably the best word I can use for it, is we just feel a resistance. And when that's there it's oh, okay. I know something's off. I know something's not aligned. And I was pursuing this one direction for my coaching who I thought a client was that I wanted to work with.
And I of, the whole time I knew I'm like, ah I don't know. And and this is when I talk about. . Yeah. So just give up this example is that conflict leads to more conflict and I was taking an action from a place that wasn't fully aligned with what was my most important value for my clients, for who I wanted to serve. And it was coming from a place of of limitation, [00:30:00] right? It was when I started looking at it, I'm like, wow, that's actually coming from a place of scarcity. And when I acknowledge when I could look at that and just really acknowledge it and say, wow who is it?
Who, do I really wanna work with? And it, and when I just allowed for that, to that question to, Germany and, I didn't hold onto any expectation, I didn't hold onto it's gotta meet this, and this. It was just, let it open up. . Right? And it came into me and it was like, wow I absolutely love working with these types of people and we were talking before the show and I love working with leaders and I love working with coaches because these are the people who are changing the world.
These are the people who are impacting so many other people. And if I can help them deepen into their mastery their mastery of their [00:31:00] own have their own inner revolution, have them really come to that deep inner clarity. And then from that place, be able to span their mastery, take bigger action and then serve other people.
Help other people do the same. Cuz again, these are in a sense transferrable skills, right? Once we each kind of learn to do this for ourselves, we can teach others and we can role model that for others. And so it just came to me, I'm like, oh my God. Like these are the people I need to be certain, these are the people I love.
To serve and be around and these are my when you think these people get it , right? Like that's, that was it for me. And it was just and it's sometimes the, clarity that comes in are things that seem obvious sometimes. And they're things that in hindsight are like, oh my God.
I can't believe I didn't see that sooner. And I'm sure you know your audience. I can't believe I didn't see that sooner. . Yeah, probably everyone can resonate with that. [00:32:00] But that's the power too, of removing those hindrances, right? Removing those blocks and just really letting yourself just letting your ego go, right?
Get the ego aside and just be like, yeah, it's not about you. And like who you're here to service. Who you're here to serve. And I was like, oh my God. And I felt a little silly after, but But that's actually a good thing, right? That's also how I know when I move through a block is there's this, whatever, just this spontaneous joy that happens after.
And I'll just share this quick story with you cuz it might be helpful for, people too. I'll give you the short version of the story. is, I was I was on a vacation trip, I was away and I had to go get dinner and there was, it was of a remote place they didn't have Uber or the Uber was gonna take [00:33:00] 30 minutes.
I'm like, oh, 30 minutes. I'm like, I can walk to the, it was only like a mile away. I'm like, I can walk there faster. So I start walking to the place to pick up the food and I was, I just noticed, I was like, I was bitter. I was like, ah, like stupid Uber . Like why aren't there more Uber cars around.
And I was just kind bitter about it cuz I I wanted to spend my time not walking around getting food. . And and I just, okay, so then on the way back I had I started to say to myself, okay let me just be grateful. I'll be grateful. There are people in Africa and like all these remote places, we have to walk incredibly far just for clean water.
I'm like so I get over it, man so I'm doing this sort of thing and and people watching you, if you're taking notes or anything, it's notice what we do is, this is what we call like a spiritual bypass, which a lot of people are probably familiar with that term is [00:34:00] I'm trying to use gratitude as this up level as a way to avoid what I'm feeling and I should be grateful for this.
And we tend to justify things, right? Like the, one of the ways that we escape feeling what we don't want to feel right, is we'll justify them. Or we will, sometimes we substitute for something else. Or we rationalize or. Or we just go full on condemn , right? And we feel better just condemning something.
So, I'm in this spiritual bypass and I'm aware of it, and I'm like, all so, then I went back to being angry, , . And then I was just, but then I was like, you know what? I'm like, it's okay. You're allowed to be angry. You're just, in my head, I was just like, you're allowed to be angry.
And it's gave myself permission with no judgment, just you're loud. And it, in that moment, it transformed. And I just spontaneously started laughing and, all the [00:35:00] anger was gone. And and it's really interesting, the key message here, and this is what I help a lot of clients do, is, can you let yourself be with what is right?
Can you let yourself be with what is in this moment? without having to change it or move away from it. Can you just be with what it is and when you can, that's when that spontaneous shift is possible. And so that was a really powerful lesson for me and what I noticed and what I think you'll, all notice as we put so much effort into trying to make something other than it is
It's a lot of energy, it's a lot of effort right? Now that doesn't mean that we don't it doesn't mean that change isn't needed and that it's not important [00:36:00] for change to happen, but we really have to look at the way that we're going about change. And, that's a big part of the inter re revolution too, is to look at the way you're doing it.
Because if it feels effortful, if it feels like hard then that means there's a lot of resistance. within you. And there's, which also indicates there's a lot of conflict and contradiction within you. And how many clients have you probably worked with Sean, where you're just, you can feel that resistance that people have.
And, if we want clarity, ultimately if we want clarity, we have to get really honest with ourselves about what it is we really want and don't want. And we have to get really honest about like what is what am I looking at? What is this situation here? And a lot of people don't wanna do that.
Yeah. They don't want, they don't wanna be that honest, [00:37:00] they don't wanna
Shawn Buttner: be that honest, or I've also found that sometimes I think we're all guilty of this, but we take the iden identity of the idea. Oh, I need to be angry at this person because
Nathan Smith: Yeah,
Shawn Buttner: I'm, and it goes back to, I'm. I was wronged, I'm justified in this.
I'm the crusader here for good and all that other stuff. And the thing is, like when you assume that identity, you're also implicitly assuming to hold onto that wedge in your brain. That anger. Yes. That disappointment, that fear, and then you become Yes. It
Nathan Smith: manifests. So yeah, we nailed it, man.
That's it. It's that identity. It's when we lock into and feel like we have [00:38:00] to like, hold onto that, that I am. And you pointed out something really important that, you know, because I've done this in my life and this is something that I think we all want to be mindful of.
And again, if you're a leader or a coach, it's something you wanna be mindful of for the people that you're leading. is, it's really easy to cuz we are living in more of a woke society now, right? A lot more people are aware of personal development and these different tools and so forth.
And part of that I've seen is that people are in a positive way, they're more willing to take responsibility right. For themselves and for their actions. But what can happen, and again, I've been guilty of this so , I know is using responsibility as a vehicle for actually being a victim.
Right? It's I'm gonna take responsibility and I'm gonna be the [00:39:00] victim here. And when we do that, it's actually a really tricky way of of abdicating responsibility. Cuz as soon as you make yourself the victim, you're no longer responsible. So it's a really tricky one. We have to watch out for
And like I said, I've done it so I know
Shawn Buttner: I'm not innocent in that or I, see myself in that situation. Yeah. Of this version. Yeah, that, I think that's such a great distinction and I, idea of Yeah, like claiming responsibility, but then claiming the, victim to not be responsible. Yeah. It's a really tricky like mental jujitsu that happens.
Nathan Smith: Oh I the ego is it's a ninja, right? [00:40:00] The way it works and triangulates and it can get out of anything. So that's why we have to be careful, right? And that's part part of this whole process is to, is you start to understand the way that you do those sorts of things, right? It's to go, beyond even.
A lot of people might go one or two layers. There's so many more layers. It's so much deeper and if you're willing to go there, it's it's really powerful what you can transform and how it can make shifts in your life and how it actually impacts your relationships. Yeah.
When you're willing to understand yourself at that depth, right? Yeah. It's incredibly powerful.
Shawn Buttner: Definitely. And going back to, to leadership too, like when you are able to check that or have power over that for yourself, that's when you get back to that first question is, or [00:41:00] pre one of the questions you asked, which is what is demanded of what is in demand for this time?
I'm paraphrasing, I'm trying to I have a, so I'd love to hear if you have a story about having done the work. Was there a situation where that helped you step into leadership more strongly than maybe you, you would've before? And I can share a story too, but
Nathan Smith: Yeah. I would share there's various stories.
I'll share one, I'll share one from from men's group. When, we're in men's group, it's not a it's a peer led situation, right? So no one's really in charge. And depending on how a person's feeling, any given night, like you, you may be in a tough space. And there's been many times when just cuz I've been [00:42:00] doing it for so long people trust me, right?
So I've built trust in the group. I show up every week. And so there are times when people say, Hey can you help me work through a process? And I gotta tell you, Sean, there's so many times when I'm like, Ugh. Like I don't want to. I'm like, I'm not there. And then I'll ask myself, all right, what does the situation demand?
And I'll check in. And, sometimes the answer's been no. Sometimes the answer is actually I need to take care of myself. And sometimes the answer is this isn't about you like Nate, so step up and serve. That's what's needed right now. And I'll step up and serve. There are many ways this could show up.
And again, using that question could show up especially in, terms of leadership. I, really think that if, we're gonna, [00:43:00] if we're gonna take this space if we're gonna take the time to get quiet, define that space for ourselves, then when we ask that question, we will be really ready to hear the answer.
But if you're asking that question from a place of fear, already. Right? So, I would just say I would caution people like when you, cuz it is a powerful question if you're willing to receive whatever the answer is, right? Because it goes along with what we talked about before is I don't mind what happens, so.
if, that's true, okay. If I can get to that space, I'm not asking this question from a place of fear, then I'll be able to hear what it is I need to do.
Shawn Buttner: On. Yeah. Abs absolutely. Yeah. I, think so the story that came up for me while you were talking about this [00:44:00] is I had a situation when I was working at Apple, so it's really smart people, a lot of really big egos because they're smart
Nathan Smith: at Apple.
No, yeah. ,
Shawn Buttner: you would never think that, right? And was working with this gentleman and short of it is there was a mis there was a serious and miscommunications that led to him slamming. Opened my door in my office and screaming like this close in my face. How terrible I was. And got, was really trying to get personal.
Yep. And an old version of me when I was young and scrappier would've yelled right back in his face. Yeah. And probably would've gotten into a fistfight. And I'm not a violent person, but like that invasion of space thing is one thing that I know is a trigger. Yeah. [00:45:00] And asking that question, what does this situation demand?
And it's a cooler head, it's. Deescalation it's, how do I shift this cuz I'll probably have to work with this person going forward. So being able in that moment to feel that anger and be like, I'm justified in this. And there's a path. Yeah. And, choosing not to go down the, path of making this worse, but trying to save the relationship.
I was able to get some other people involved and cool it down and then work on Yep. Getting back to, to, to being able to work. But that's the kind of, at least for me let's a, big example of why this inner work's so important. Yeah. And how it, then translates into leadership because it [00:46:00] take, everyone could, can be a leader I, firmly believe.
And so when you're able to channel that, . Yep. In those moments authentically, then you have better outcomes.
Nathan Smith: Oh, ab, absolutely. And it's interesting cuz you bring up a good point here, Sean, which is a lot of situations we might find ourselves in might be quite spontaneous. There may not be moments in which we can, oh, let me sit down and ask this question.
Like someone, it's boom, someone's right in your face. And I always think in moments like that, to your point, deescalation it's, always appropriate to excuse yourself and say hey, I need to take a step back I'm not in a space right now where I can respond to this effectively, or however you need to say it.
Yeah. And give yourself that space because [00:47:00] you mentioned when you were doing the intro in the beginning, , one of the one of my key or foundational frameworks is that I want to act from a place of more wisdom, skill, and compassion. And I, think those really interrelate quite well.
And if I think about, okay, wisdom is, really how do I combine my, knowledge, my self knowledge, right? With my experience and, my understanding. And and the deeper part is like, how do I really combine what I know about myself, right? And this comes from like one of the pillars I work with people is realization.
And the realization pillar is really where we do that inner revolution work, right? It's, that process of [00:48:00] self-discovery. . And as you pointed out I know myself, , , I know that normally, like when you're in my face, like I'm ready to go So, you have that wisdom. And so you know what, you need to take care of yourself, right?
Yeah. So, coming from a place of wisdom is really important because once we come from a place of wisdom very often, then we can act with skillful means. Right? Oof. That's so good. And someone who was not coming from a place of wisdom right. Would've shoved a guy or screamed back or done something destructive.
And then therefore non skillful. So if we can take space, find space, take the time to connect with our inner knowing our self knowledge. Connect to a place of wisdom, we can act more skillfully. And within that action, it will also be compassionate. . [00:49:00] Yeah. Because someone who's acting from a place of wisdom can see that this other person is hurting.
I can see this other person struggling. So it's not about retaliation, it's not about let me come after this person. They need compassion right now. Yeah. And sometimes sometimes compassion just, to be fair, might look like holding a hard boundary. Compassion isn't all bunnies and , and rainbows
Shawn Buttner: sometimes it's saying, no, I can't go work through this process with you like that.
Nathan Smith: Yeah, absolutely. So, if we can keep that in mind that we want to show up in those three ways that can be really powerful. Yeah. I,
Shawn Buttner: I love that, quick framework. And those, examples. [00:50:00] I guess would that framework or the one we talked about before, the three questions, if you were a beginner in this inner revolution and it had come to the thing where okay, I know I need to do the work and I don't know what the work is or what the next steps are, do you have a, two to three step starting process?
Nathan Smith: Yeah. It's interesting. There's a great quote which people may be quite familiar with. I don't know if we originally said, it might have been Ron Bass, I think, but he said you have to become a somebody before you can become a nobody . Okay. And really what that means is many of us on, the, let's say the latter half of our journey, it's about letting the ego go.
It's not so much about, [00:51:00] about me anymore, right? But before we can do that, like many of us have to actually get more established in who we are. We have to get more established in an identity first. And that's what will then allow us to have the wisdom to be able to take the path on becoming a nobody.
And, some people don't care about the path to becoming a nobody. I'll be honest. Some people just, I want, I'm gonna be somebody, I wanna be the biggest somebody there is. And again, that's fine too, right? Everyone's path is their own and it's totally fine. But the reason I mentioned that, Sean, is because I really have to look at where somebody is first, and I need to see, do they need to be built up right now?
Do they need to get more established in their ness first, or are they ready for that other part of the journey? and do they want that other part of the journey? Cuz if they don't, again, what's gonna happen is [00:52:00] just a lot of resistance. So the first thing I would maybe have someone take a look at is just where are they in their journey, right?
Do I feel like I really need to get rooted more into my identity? Cuz that may be appropriate and that may be what's necessary, right? And or maybe they'll find no, you know what? I've been doing this a while, or I'm, really ready to, let all that go, right? I'm really ready for maybe a simpler path.
So number one is I would identify where are you in the journey? And then to the best of your ability, what do you want? It's a very powerful question that I think people don't ask themselves enough because it's actually a really hard question. , what do you, yeah, what do you want? And now here's a key distinction I would make with that is once you've identified [00:53:00] what, you want, ask yourself, okay, so is this really what I want?
Or do I want to want it? Oof. Because a lot of people want to want something cuz they feel like they should, or I'm supposed to and, what happens then is they don't do the work. If you want to want something, you're in conflict cuz you don't really want it. So everything's gonna feel like a struggle.
Everything's gonna feel hard, like an uphill battle. And, again, really, if you can just be honest with yourself, right? The only way to see truth is to be brutally honest with yourself and look at the truth of what is that's it. So that would be, I think that would save people a lot of time.
Just start there. Yeah. To the best of your ability, can you get honest with yourself? What do I want? [00:54:00] Really .
Shawn Buttner: Yeah. And that's, so another, a reminder to the folks listening to that, a really great reason to work with a coach is to have someone that's skilled in helping you be honest with yourself.
Or see those blind spots. Or see those ugly spots that we all don't want to see or acknowledge about ourselves. Yeah. Cause that's the toughest thing where you might even have an inkling, but your brain is so tricky at being like, don't pay attention to that. You're great. You're doing fine.
And then yeah, it shows up in weird ways. And you're like, why did that happen? Why did I yell at the dog? Yeah. Or whatever. It's
Nathan Smith: Oh and, to hold you in that space, right? To Yeah. To have somebody, cuz again, as a coach or just an outside person we can hear the tonality, right?
We can [00:55:00] hear like the way that somebody says something or the pacing with which they say it, or how long it takes them to respond. Like all these different subtle things that we, cuz we can't see the water we're swimming in, right? . That's why I need coaches , because I can't see my own stuff is there's all these things, all these subtle things and a coach can really draw that out of you and say what do you think that was about
And, start to give some honest reflection. My job I see my job as just like I'm here to be a mirror of truth. That's it. I'm gonna be a mirror of truth for you. It's not my job to tell you how to live your life to tell you what to do. . But I am here to reflect back to you what you need to see so that you can create the life you want for yourself, right?
The one you really want. And, try to save yourself all [00:56:00] from falling into all the pitfalls and all the traps and having to go back, go directly to jail, do not pass, go. It's can we avoid all those things? And again, it's not that there isn't wisdom in those things too I think we've all experienced at some level if, there's suffering that's not necessary, then let's see if we can move through it.
Yeah. Or not have to go through it. So it's
Shawn Buttner: You, can learn the lesson by getting hit in the face with a snowball or seeing that there's a snowball fight on your path and avoiding it. That's not a great analogy, but I think it illustrates the point I'm trying to make there's, you can learn through observation or you can learn through experience and sometimes having a mentor or coach with a different perspective is a little bit less painful cuz you can be like, oh, that's gonna hurt if I step into that.[00:57:00]
Nathan Smith: Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. We all need support on the journey, right? Nobody does it alone. And just having people who have been there, who have experienced life and in its fast array and again, people who have done the work, like it's it's hard to it's hard to help somebody, right?
If you haven't done the work yourself and if you don't understand the traps and if you don't understand the pitfalls, and again, I've. My own stuff. Like I see the way, I'm like, oh my God and because I've been in those traps myself. So then I see them operating in other people.
There's a great, another great quote I love, which is if you spot it, you got it. Yeah. , right? So all the stuff that you see in other people, that's cuz it's in me and I know I've I've had a lot of challenges and so I can spot them and it's and [00:58:00] I've learned tools to help help people work through them
Shawn Buttner: and I, love that. I guess last I, that's probably the perfect way to end, so I, think maybe we will call out there. So Nathan, thank you so, much for being on Yeah. The podcast today. My pleasure. I really enjoyed our, conversation. I think inner work is integral to anything you want to do out in the world.
And now I'm, thinking about my life and all those kind of pivot points so I could come up with a bajillion from the word. Yeah. But it is super important. How can the good people follow up with you one last time?
Nathan Smith: Yeah. You can go to my website, it's just www.embodiedexcellence.com.
We're also going to put a link down in the, somewhere , there will be a link. Show notes. Yeah. [00:59:00] Yeah, and if you just want to connect for a 15 minute conversation and the whole idea here is for you to recognize where do I have conflict in my life? Where is that inner confusion or where do I feel like I'm caught in contradiction?
And if you wanna work through that, you want some help, you just want a set of eyes that's experience working through this kind of stuff I'd love to help you. So we'll put a link down there as well. And I do host just a regular webinar as well. And if that's something that your, audience wants to go to we'll make that link available as well.
Shawn Buttner: Awesome. Yeah. We'll put it down in, in the show notes. Wow, what a powerful conversation. I I always do this. I like take three pages of notes and then remind the audience to take notes at the end instead of the beginning. I need to update my, checklist here, but
Nathan Smith: they know by now they've
Shawn Buttner: I hope so. With that said yeah, [01:00:00] thanks again for, coming on. It's a true pleasure. I'd love to have you on sometime again in the future if you're down for that.
Nathan Smith: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Sean, this has been great. Great to see you again and connect with you. I love the work that you're doing. Let's keep this meaningful revolution going and yeah.
I'm happy to connect. So thank, you for having me on. Yeah, you're
Shawn Buttner: welcome. All right. With that said, we'll see you guys next week on the Meaningful Revolution. See you then. What is your meaningful revolution? On the podcast, we talk about people that have done a lot of work and getting clarity about what their mission is, what they find fulfillment in, what is helping them engage in their life more, and in the hopes of inspiring you to do so for yourself, but how do you go about doing that, right?
Maybe you are new to personal development. Maybe you're new to wanting [01:01:00] change in your life. And you don't know how to get to that next step. Good news. I got a three day challenge for you that will help guide you through just that. It's the meaningful revolution challenge where we'll spend three days together, one hour each.
We're on day one. We'll talk about clearly defining your personal, meaningful revolution, which is your fulfilling transformation. It's your purposeful impact. It's that authentic movement that gets you up and excited out of bed every morning to go out and chase and create in the world. Because I believe if we have more people living into their personal, meaningful revolutions, that we will have a lot more people engaged in their lives, which helps us out in society.
It helps us provide more for our families. It helps us feel better about our lives, and these are all things that we all strive for, right? I feel like we all strive for joy, growth, and impact in life, and a lot of that revolves if you can't achieve those three things, you have your. [01:02:00] Personal meaningful revolution.
So I'd love for you to join us in this free three day challenge, which is live. And like I said, on the first day, we'll go through clearly defining your personal meaningful revolution. The second day we'll talk about building your plan and the components of that so you can know your next steps and follow through and fill a little bit of momentum there.
And then the third day we'll talk about your commitment to that vision and habits, strategies, tactics to help make sure you follow through. I love doing these challenges because one, I get to know you guys more. I get to understand and ask you questions. There's a, place each day for some question answers and for some one-off coaching if you're struggling with something in As a certified high performance coach, I am a coach first. I love coaching people. It's my bread and butter, and it's not me telling you. What to do, but it's us [01:03:00] co-creating and figuring out a solution together to whatever is getting in your way. So love to do that for you. Join us in the Meaningful Revolution Challenge by clicking on the link below, wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast.
So see you in the challenge guys. You've got this. This is the year to step up that vision for your life, to really build into that vision and to get some momentum going into this new year. So join us. See you there.
