S9E1 - Communicate Like A Leader
===
Shawn Buttner: [00:00:00] Why do we need to learn how to effectively communicate and lead in order to push our meaningful revolutions forward? Those things that are purposeful in our lives, are impactful in our careers, in our personal lives, and that's the question we're out to answer this season in The Meaningful Revolution, and we have the answer.
an incredible guest who is an expert in communication and leadership. Our guest today is the president of Communispond, which is a renowned global leader in communication skills training. In this role, he has provided leadership in the sales organization, marketing product, and logistics areas. And he serves as the host of a top rated business management podcast, Communicast.
Those are two decades of experience and sales and leadership within the education and training [00:01:00] sector. I really enjoyed the conversation we had today with Scott D'Amico. We covered so many different things. The DNA of a great leader. We talked about what we need to do to communicate as a leader. Be effective.
We talked about so many different ways that we should be leading. It was very informative. I really did enjoy his time and his expertise. I hope you will too. And so be listening for how to apply this to your meeting, because when we talk about leadership, a lot of times we're talking about managing change, right?
and that we're managers and that we are leading change. into a better future for our families, for ourselves, for our organizations, for, and when you are in that change position, you have to be communicating [00:02:00] clearly what the most important thing is and what people should be doing. And so if you're not doing that, you are not serving the people around you.
You'll hear that word a lot this episode, which is great. And yeah, it was very insightful and thoughtful. And I hope you're ready to take a whole bunch of notes because I did. Okay, with that said, let's get started with the episode with Scott D'Amico.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. I'm your host, Shawn Buttner. And today we're with Scott D'Amico. So welcome Scott.
Scott D'Amico: Thank you, Shawn. Glad to be here.
Shawn Buttner: So excited to, talk to you about communication and leadership, which is something that I put hand in when I think of leadership, you have to be a good communicator.
I feel that good communicators are often [00:03:00] great leaders. And so I'm really excited for this conversation today. And I'm curious. so this season we're talking about why you need to step into leadership to more effectively realize and lead your meaningful revolution or the things you find meaningful or impactful out in the world with the heart of service.
So I'd love for you to maybe start with how do you define leadership? I think
Scott D'Amico: there's a lot of ways to look at leadership. Traditionally, people think of leadership in a corporate setting where you have a team of people that are reporting to you. You're responsible for their outcomes. But for me, when it really comes down to it, is that, are you somebody that is helping the people around you?
That could simply be a teammate on your kid's soccer team, right? they're showing those attributes to help elevate their people. It could be informally at work where you're not a [00:04:00] direct people leader, but you're willing to step up and be a challenge partner for somebody or to help the new people get up to speed.
And then there's obviously that formal position of leadership and I think there's a big difference between manager and leader. A leader ultimately is somebody that people do want to follow. And if you want to bring about change, whether it's in your personal life or your professional life, you need to have the skills to motivate people and build that desire within them and have them want to follow you to where you're going.
Shawn Buttner: yeah, I love that definition of leadership having. So when I think of leadership. There's a lot of like words that I think of. You think of like top down, you think of servant leadership, you think of tasks resulted or task oriented or people oriented, like there's a whole hodgepodge of things that leadership could be.
I really love the manager versus leader distinction [00:05:00] because if you've ever worked for a manager, it can be very challenging in ways. we can maybe get into that a little bit more. but. With that definition, and I love that you focused on helping and serving others. And it's a lot of ways serving everyone around you in your life.
Like you said, at the, soccer coach informally on your team. if you are not formally granted like leadership responsibilities. So I'm curious, how did you, do you have a pivotal moment in your life where you realized like, Oh, I really need to. figure out how to become a better leader or leadership would be transformative for you in a particular way.
Scott D'Amico: If I think through my life, I was fortunate to have a number of good leaders. A lot of them early on were in the sports area. So some high school coaches and for football, [00:06:00] weightlifting, things like that, people that one, I knew really cared about me and were looking out for my best interests and always advocating for me.
Other coaches that were willing to. Roll up their sleeves and do the things right along with us. I talk a lot about a coach that I had where. I'm 17, 18 years old at the time. He's probably 40 at the time. He's running sprints with us. He's in the weight room with us. He was not asking us to do anything that he was not willing to do himself.
I think having leaders like that growing up. Having strong leaders in my family with both my parents and my brother, people that I saw were working hard and working towards something towards, they had very clear goals that they were working towards. So I had these role models growing up where I was fortunate enough to learn from these folks.
And all along the way, I would always find myself wanting to help people, trying to help [00:07:00] people, whether it was, in sports or just friends. And then when I got into teaching, that was my first career was a high school teacher. So I spent a good bit of time in the classroom. And for me, that was the most valuable part was seeing people grow and develop because of the investments that I was making in them as individuals.
Shawn Buttner: Right on.so I love that you started as a teacher. I, know that you've done a lot of work in communication and leadership since that time. And,that, that impact on others, a lot of, when I talk about having a meaningful revolution, I think a lot of it is people chasing, trying to find purpose and meaning in their life.
And I can't think of any endeavor that is super fulfilling that doesn't involve helping others along the way. And could you maybe translate how that experience as a high school teacher in social studies translated into more [00:08:00] of your career later, maybe?
Scott D'Amico: As I was teaching, I really did enjoy it. I had a tremendous amount of success with students and oftentimes hard to reach students.
Students that were getting kicked out of every single class before mine. They were showing up, they were paying attention, they were doing their work. So I did enjoy that aspect and I had students make tremendous growth throughout my time with them. What I was finding though was teaching was starting to become secondary.
I likely would have stayed in that profession much longer, but teaching was starting to come secondary. There were just lots of administrative issues that come up. Teachers getting pulled into so many meetings, not having time to plan, dealing with discipline issues outside in the hall that were not related to my students.
That was really just pulling me away from. The classroom. So at some point I knew I needed to make a change, but I also felt I'm really passionate about helping [00:09:00] people. I see the value in education. So how can I take that and do something else with it, which is what brought me into the adult education and training space, knowing that education can have a transformative impact on not only individuals, but communities.
As I started to think about that, If you get adults excited about education, where they can make the connection between education and training and development to outcomes, ideally career outcomes, that positive view on education will ultimately trickle down into the classrooms and have students making more of an impact in the schools.
So I started thinking about what are the skills that I have as a teacher being able to effectively communicate, to motivate others. To create relevancy, to create urgency, to understand people's drivers and motivations. As I thought through that, that led me into my initial sales career in the corporate education and [00:10:00] training space.
So I was able to stay close to the education realm and still in this aspect of how can we help people better their situation, better their lives. Through growth and development.
Shawn Buttner: Right on. Seems like it'd be such a dramatic shift going from going into sales from teaching. And I'm sure that was, did it seem like a very easy shift because of the skills you had accumulated and transferred, or was it a jarring type of career jump?
Scott D'Amico: I definitely won't say it was. But what I will say is being a classroom teacher and from my experience being a high school teacher at a large school is one of the best preps that you can have for a sales and leadership career. Because if you want to talk about [00:11:00] getting used to rejection in sales, You definitely get used to rejection when you're dealing with teenagers and trying to get them excited about, the law of diminishing returns and the Magna Carta and things like that.
They're very quick to tell you exactly what they think about things. So you definitely get a thick skin as a teacher, which comes with the territory, develops over time. And then just also the work that you have to put into it and the creativity that you have to show. So making the transition, it wasn't, I would say jarring, But it wasn't easy because it's a slightly different skill set that you have to approach.
whereas, when you're teaching, you have a captive audience. When you're in the sales world, you don't have that captive audience. So you have to really go out and find your audience and then start to go through your process. Right on.
Shawn Buttner: do you think you could explain it as having a formal leadership authority and then a more informal one as a salesman?
You're more influencing, I'd imagine.
Scott D'Amico: Yeah, so I would say even in [00:12:00] teaching, it's still about influence. While I can, and this goes back to what I talked about, where some students are getting kicked out of class, and then they're coming to my class, and doing well. Me and that other teacher, we had the same level of authority over that student.
I could have very easily just said, Nope, get out of here. I'm not dealing with this today. I've heard about you. You have a bad reputation, whatever it is, but it's, I think it's the approach. It's this idea of understanding what are they looking to get out of this class? How can I help them to be successful?
Whatever success means for them, for every single student, it was different. Same thing in sales. You're understanding, how can I help you? What challenges are you facing? What are you looking to get out of my product or service? Why are you in essence hiring me or hiring my company or hiring our product?
So as you really step back and take the [00:13:00] focus off yourself and realize it's not about me as a teacher, not about me as a salesperson. Not about me as a parent, not about me. So as you start to check the ego a little bit, and I will say that's a big challenge,that I noticed with teachers who struggled was that they felt that they were in this superior position and weren't willing to do some of those things to get to understand where the students were coming from and meet them where they were at.
Shawn Buttner: So that, I love that phrase, it's not about me, cause that is such a,like you said, it applies to a whole bunch of different areas. shifting gears a little bit, I think this is a good time to ask this question. What do you think makes a great leader? Cause if we go through the 10 minutes, you've already talked so far, you've talked about being a role model, being willing to do the work you've talked about being an excellent communicator.
You've talked about, some things I highlighted, a couple other things I can't read my handwriting. [00:14:00] what do you think are, is like the. DNA, a great
Scott D'Amico: leader.it definitely ties back into what we just hit on that. It's not about me. That's a big differentiator between a manager and a leader.
I, I'm sure I'm going to butcher the quote and I don't know exactly who to attribute it to, but it's something like when I talk with a manager, I get the feeling that they're important. When I talk to a leader, I get the feeling that I'm important. So it really is putting your focus on your people.
So I think above, above all leaders are selfless. They realize their role is to help the people on their team to be successful and to understand what they need from them to be successful. for this person and a lot of my experience in leadership is in sales leadership. This person maybe needs help with closing.
This person might need help with prospecting. This person's a rockstar, but the deals they come up with, they need some help getting the internal obstacles out of the way, right? [00:15:00] to knock down the sales prevention department at a lot of organizations. So you start to understand you, how can I help and how can I use my skills there?
I think the second big component of it goes down to that they're accessible, right? If you're going to talk about, I'm here to help you. But then you're always in your office with the door closed. You don't respond to things in a timely manner or the way in which you respond to things, do not encourage people to come to you or to bring up ideas.
I think that's the second thing, being accessible. Then the third big part really does go down to communication. Are you able to, in essence, communicate in a way that's going to motivate your team that's going to help them understand what's important. To the organization and what's important for their role and how they contribute.
And then in general, just the way that you communicate, are you creating that culture where people can thrive? And that means. They can thrive because they [00:16:00] feel comfortable that they're not going to get in trouble for asking a question about something, or they're not going to get in trouble or demonished for suggesting we do things a different way.
So you start to combine this idea of communication and creating that open culture, being accessible, and then ultimately realizing it's not about you, it's about the people on your team. To me, those are three big characteristics of a great leader.
Shawn Buttner: Okay. I love that.on the communication line, for people that are listening, how,so I'm a coach, so a lot of times when I work with clients one on one, I'm a high performance coach, it is questioning people, Go!
This person treated me poorly and I don't understand it and you get into it and a lot of times it's a communication issue of either misinterpreting what people are saying or Like you were talking about the perception of how approachable you are versus not. And [00:17:00] so if we would ask the listeners to think what, where could you maybe start to peel back the layers and analyze your own communication styles?
Do you have anything, that you would maybe think through or talk through or immediately start to check so that. Anyone could try to start improving their communication.
Scott D'Amico: A couple of things, a big part of it, as you mentioned, it's that awareness, the self awareness of not only how am I communicating, but how are people responding to my communications?
So a few things that you can do there, simply go through your inbox or even your sent folders and look at some of the messages that you send on any given day. and ask yourself, how would I feel if I received this message from my boss? How would that make me feel? Good? Bad? Nervous? excited, stressed. I think that's one very simple exercise.
Another thing that you can do when you're communicating with people is to pay attention to how they're [00:18:00] responding to you. Lots of times we've heard about the body language, right? Do people start to slouch down? Do they cross their arms? Maybe that means that they're shut off. They're not tuning into what you have to say.
So you definitely want to listen with your eyes. and then the normal listening of, am I just getting one word responses back from them? Or are they opening up? So that can help you to understand. One is my message resonating. And then two, if I'm asking questions and I'm only getting one word responses back and it's not really what I need, you can start to evaluate the types of questions and how you're questioning and what context you're providing in your questions.
That's the second thing, being aware and whenever possible, if you're able to record your communication. So if you're giving a presentation, simply recording it and watching it back, you'll pick up on big and little things that you do that are pulling away from the effectiveness of your communication.[00:19:00]
You may simply see how you react when somebody challenges you, or they ask a challenging question, or they maybe push back, you'll just pick up on subtle cues with your body language that could. be putting people off and having them say, gosh, I can't stand working with Scott or I hate going into a meeting with Scott, whatever it is.
So you do that. You may just pick up on subtle things that you're doing that pulls away from your credibility. You're slouching, you're shifting all around, your hands in your pocket, things like that. So there's just a few little things that you can do that will to develop that self awareness. And as you continue to do that, you do that time and time again, where you really pay attention to how people react to your communications.
You're going to start to be able to pick up on it almost in real time to be able to then adapt. So I'll be in meetings where I'm saying something and I'm talking and I'm Able to quickly realize, okay, they're not with me. Either I've lost them or they don't agree with the direction I'm going. So I can pause and then start to maybe ask [00:20:00] some questions or shift my approach a little bit.
Shawn Buttner: yeah, I, it's so fascinating to me. yeah, I come from a technical background as a software engineer, but I was the guy that was always Paying attention to what's happening on the team because, the quiet people sometimes don't have a voice or there's a louder person, noticing those social dynamics, I think, can help you,point those out and lead a team and making sure that everyone is heard.
how did you, did you just pick up on, these subtle body language cues, on the job as you were going? Did you take a class? Did, did you go to a special emotional dojo?
Scott D'Amico: It has definitely been a skill that's been honed over time. For me, I am a big believer of looking at every interaction I have as a [00:21:00] learning opportunity. Could be a conversation with my kids. I have an 11 year old and a 14 year old, so I have lots of opportunities to practice up and pick up on, on body language and how they, they might not be into what I'm talking about.
But every meeting that I'm in with my team or with clients, and this is beyond just the work that I've done at Communispond, even prior to that as a classroom teacher, as an athlete, being a captain on sports teams, throughout my tenure at the education organization where I grew from an individual contributor to leading the sales group, you just have so many opportunities.
Every single day to learn and to hone these skills. So it takes practice. And then now with the role I'm at, I have the privilege of serving, as we talked about the president of Communispond, which is a global communication skills training company. We have obviously great resources here that I've been able to go through our training programs and this [00:22:00] continue to further refine those skills coming in.
I thought, Hey, I'm a strong communicator. I was a teacher. Yeah, I've been in a lot of sales and leadership positions. And then I came here, really learned how to fine tune it and then to start to take those skills to the next level. And. model and practice the skills on a daily basis.
Shawn Buttner: I love that a theme is, I've noticed a theme of role modeling, be kind of leader you want to be and the kind of communications you want to be or want to have out in the world. I just wanted to tease that out real quick.
Scott D'Amico: and, I would say one of our, at Communispawn, one of our core values is practice what we teach.
We're a communication skills training company. Our communication skills need to be effective both internally and especially externally, but also internally with the way that we communicate with each other, with the emails that we send, if it's a request or an [00:23:00] update to make sure that we're modeling the skills that we teach to our clients so that when the sales reps are meeting with a client, are we following our Socratic method when we're presenting a proposal to a client?
Are we using the skills that we talk about in our presentation skills classes? So absolutely need to be a role model, showcase those skills, and then also talk about them. Cause a lot of times if you just, do things differently and you don't tell people why, or they don't understand why you're doing things the way that you do, they might not always pick up on it.
I, as many times as I reorganize the dishwasher the way that my wife has done it, I'm like, no, I'm flipping cups. It needs to be this way. If I never tell her why I'm doing this, she's just going to think I'm crazy. So you have to give the why behind, behind why you do things.
Shawn Buttner: Right on. yeah, definitely have had that conversation with my wife before on that.
That's hilarious. I think this leads into another interesting [00:24:00] question. if you take communication and that role modeling and being very clear on why you're doing things, and I guess creating meaning behind. The movement or the meaning behind why things are, could you talk maybe about how communicating as a leader Okay, my head just went in three different questions.
Okay. First question is I guess how Is there Let me form this for a second As a leader, how do you communicate differently than maybe an individual contributor?
Scott D'Amico: I think there's a couple things to think about, especially for folks that are moving from an individual contributor into a leadership position or maybe manager into senior leadership types of position.
One thing is to be very aware that your voice can carry an [00:25:00] outsized impact on people. So the things that you say, the words that you choose, how you deliver those words can have a really big impact. And I've been in organizations before where you get an email from one of the executive leaders that's like a nice kudos, Oh man, wow, that's great.
That feels really good. And then sometimes you get a response back that just says, okay. What did I do? Are they upset? Is that, so you need to be very aware that when you are a leader of an organization, your words carry a lot of weight. So just be mindful of that. The other big thing that really comes with leadership is this.
Vision casting. you're ultimately going to be responsible for setting the vision for the organization, not only setting it, putting the priorities into place, and then communicating how and why. How are we going to get there? Why are we doing this? A lot of people will paint a great vision. They can paint the great picture.[00:26:00]
But they don't necessarily talk about the why. Why are we going to be doing this? And then really, how are the tactical, how are we going to do that? I think those are two big things to be aware of. The impact your words have, and then this idea of really moving from maybe more tactical communications to more vision casting.
Shawn Buttner: I love that.okay.
So the phrase outsized impact on people, I think as someone that, is focused on personal development and is always very, is considered very much that your words do have an impact on people.
Thinking about how, we were talking at the top of the episode of you might have informal leadership potential, like on a team with your family at the soccer pitch, or you might have formal [00:27:00] authority, or you're appointed the VP of sales or the VP of technology information.If we're talking about
that,
you got me in my head, so this is good. yeah, I think that question is going to sound strange. I was trying to, get to the point where we should all be considering how we choose our words and not necessarily like monitoring ourselves. But again, that the leader practicing that, that leadership, These leadership, principles in our day to day life,
Scott D'Amico: so This idea of being, if you want to be a leader, you need to start acting like one before you have the formal title.
That's really the best thing that you can do if you're hoping to move into a leadership position, [00:28:00] start acting like one today. And that comes from communicating like a leader. being aware of word choice, how you communicate the structure of your messaging, understanding your audience. So if you're an individual contributor looking to move into management and you have an opportunity, say, to go present to some senior leadership, if you don't know what's important to that audience and you're going on and on about all the minutia and all the details, and they're very much bottom line driven, it's going to fall flat.
So you need to start to think like a leader, act like a leader before you get there. And then find opportunities. So one of the things that helped me out early on in my career was that I would get involved. I would, the new people that would come on, I would take them under my wing. Get them up to speed and be a resource for them.
I would serve as challenge partners in the sales organization for other people outside of my territory, outside of the team that I was on. And I was not the top salesperson, but I [00:29:00] continued to grow through the organization because they saw those leadership qualities. That they weren't seeing in the top performing sales reps.
The top performing sales reps were, they're just laser focused on them. They had their number, that's all they did. And then they were surprised when they didn't get promotions. And I remember hearing a story before about your two colleagues that were both going for the same leadership position and the feedback I was close with the hiring manager, the feedback that I had received was.
During the interview, one talked about all of their accomplishments, that all they talked about was them, their numbers, how they hit this, they exceeded quota. The other one was talking more about the team, what they could do, how they could develop people. And so as you continue to put these things into practice before you have the formal chance, One, it's going to make it easier of a transition when you get there.
Shawn Buttner: And then two, it's just going to set you apart from the rest of the crowd.that's so [00:30:00] good.I think more people need to hear that. And the question I have for you now then is, do you think that. Everyone is a leader, or, and I'm approaching this from like a holistic view, like we should be leaders in our relationships and our family and the things that we do out in the world, or is there a time to switch it off, maybe?
Scott D'Amico: I think It's one of those things where you need to read the room and understand your audience and just going back to family. There's sometimes when I'm having a discussion with my wife or a discussion with the kids and sometimes they need dad. They need dad to take the lead, to help them through this, to figure it out, or they need, their husband or their spouse, whatever, to, to really try and lead through this tough time.
Other times they just need. So an event too. [00:31:00] And I will say one of the biggest things that I work on personally and professionally is my natural instinct is to solve problems. Soon as I hear something, I want to get in there. I want to fix it. I want to make it better. And here you go. Here's what you need to do.
Not everyone needs that all the time, especially at home, right? There is a time where, when my wife or my kids come to me with something and my job is just to listen. As hard as it is to shut my mouth, listen, maybe ask some questions that will help them get from point a to point B, which is going to be a lot more powerful than if I just say, why don't you just do this?
Duh, right? And same thing when you're leading your team, rather than me coming in and say, okay, here's just what you need to do, like for this client, just do this. versus stepping back and say, Okay, tell me a little bit more about what's going on here. But what are some things that we've tried already?
Ultimately, what is the [00:32:00] client trying to do?as you start to ask questions, and that really ties into something that is important, I think, for leadership and communication is this concept of curiosity. Do you have that innate curiosity? I'm very much on the curious side of things where I, and I know I drive my wife nuts.
I know I drive people, I just, I'm like, why? Oh, what's that? And I'm I'll be on my phone at night. She'll be like, what are you doing? I'm just watching this video about how a combustion engine works. She's like, why? I have no idea. I just I was curious. I just wanted to know. I'm never going to fix one. But it's just one of those things.
If you have that curiosity, it really helps with your communication, especially on the questioning side. Because I love it when I get in front of a client and we just start going and they're willing to answer these things that I'm putting out because I genuinely want to know. And then it makes my job as a benefit that much easier on the back end because I have all this great information that they shared with me [00:33:00] and I can put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure out, okay, here's how we can help.
So this idea of asking questions. Asking the right questions in the right way and providing context. One of the best things that you can do when you are talking with somebody and asking questions is simply say, the reason I'm asking is. That will bring their guard down so much and it takes it from what could feel like an interrogation into a genuine conversation where they know why you're asking that, because you're curious, you want to help, you've been through this before, so you provide some context that really can help with your communication.
Right
Shawn Buttner: on. That's so good. And While you were talking about catering to the situation, I had recently heard somebody talk about trying to realize what type of [00:34:00] conversation you're actually in. Are you in an intellectual type conversation where you're gonna do the problem solving? Is it an emotional type of, conversation?
and and that happens in work and at home and everywhere else. Yeah, not what I love. I'm curious what you think about this, but there's different types of how you can lead, right? And like you were saying, like understanding when to step back and let people explore and take up space is as critical a skill as being the one on the front line, charging the hill, saying, follow me, this is where we're going.
can you think of any other maybe types of conversations that people. Might have in that kind of category, just because I'm curious.
Scott D'Amico: Yeah. I think there's a handful that I get on a regular basis, right? Sometimes it is the vent conversation. Somebody just needs to vent. They have to get it out for [00:35:00] if they don't, they're going to lose it and they don't necessarily need anything from me.
There's nothing maybe that could change for them or do differently. they just needed to vent about something, this personally and professionally. I think that's one component of it. I think there's other ones where there is the. People who like to think out loud, simply having somebody to talk through something like I'll be on a call with somebody for 10 or 15 minutes.
They talk 99 percent of the time. Oh my God, thank you so much. This is perfect. I'm like, I didn't say anything. I didn't do anything. You talk your way into that. So I think once again, being patient to be quiet and let people talk so they can either vent. They can think out loud. Sometimes it is a pick me up.
I realize that when I'm talking with somebody, especially in sales, right? Sales, you have to ride the wave of the ebbs and flows of this business where you're [00:36:00] gonna have great days, great weeks, great months, you're just, things are tanking, seems like nothing's ever going to happen sometimes, when I'm in one on ones with people, I get the sense.
That, they're in that, the valley, right? they crested over the peak, they're down in that valley. So sometimes they just need, the pick me up or the reinforcement, a little bit of a cheerleading to get through that. And when to do that, if you've worked with your folks and you're seeing that.
Yes, this person's, they're doing the right thing day in and day out. It's not a performance issue, so to speak, or they're not doing the right things. So when you see that they are, sometimes you got to be that cheerleader. So yeah, thanks. I've never really thought about it that way before. There are just so many different types of conversations.
So you have to try to quickly identify what type of conversation am I. Am I in here? Is this a, where I'm listening? Am I problem solving? Am I cheerleading? Am I just absorbing, right? I'm absorbing the, I won't say negativity, but like just the bad stuff that somebody [00:37:00] needs to get out. And it's powerful when you're accessible to do that.
And you've created a culture where people feel comfortable coming to you to do that. Cause if you haven't, guess what? That person that's in the spiral, because the performance has been down for a week or two. They're just going to continue to spiral out of control. The person who's frustrated and maybe angry, that anger is going to boil over somewhere where it shouldn't.
that person that just needs to ideate, they're going to miss an opportunity because they didn't have the opportunity to talk to somebody about it. So you have to create that culture where people feel comfortable coming to you.
Shawn Buttner: and when you're able to create that culture too. I imagine that when you have to have those tougher conversations, like the performance conversation or corrective, cause they're out, behavior, maybe outside of the culture, it's actually easier than if it's more [00:38:00] contentious.
Maybe could you talk about how to have those performance or corrective or like the tougher conversations?
Scott D'Amico: Yeah. And I will say, this is something that, Early on in my career as a people leader, I had always shied away from I would say making those personal connections with the people on my team, getting to know a lot about their family and they're just creating that bond for fear that, oh, gosh, if there's ever, performance issues or if I have to let somebody go, it's going to make it's going to be just really hard.
And what I found is the inverse of that. One, as you're able to connect with people personally, you're going to be able to coach them better. You're going to know what motivates them and drives them more, and you'll avoid a lot of those types of issues. But when you are able to have those open, honest conversations with people, because you've built the relationship, you've built the trust, there is that culture of openness, you tend to have those conversations [00:39:00] earlier on and head them off rather than waiting for Until things are just really bad and they're beyond fixing.
And then that's when it tends to be more of a shock, more contentious. So I definitely think it helps in that aspect. And then beyond that, when you are there to help every one of my one on ones with my team, one of the things I always say, what can I do to help? How can I help? So that also helps me know that.
Whenever I have to approach a situation like that, where maybe somebody isn't performing, I know that I've done everything within my power to help. It's not just, I left somebody out there floundering. They were given every opportunity to grow and to develop and to ask for help because it was provided to them.
Shawn Buttner: How many? I'm just super fascinated on this. How many conversations have you [00:40:00] had in your career when it's been, you've asked that, how can I help? And the question or the answer is, I need to transition jobs or I need to switch out of the organization. Or, I'm really interested in like you're in sales.
I'm really interested in starting a coffee shop or flower boutique or, Start another business or whatever. Something, fun, but maybe not related where, having that tough conversation, you've discovered this other interest. And I imagine you're the type of person that would, let's build a plan to get you where you want to go because happy people, are the most productive.
if I could, I get that sense from who you are as a person, but correct me if I'm wrong, but.
Scott D'Amico: Yeah, I don't, I'm trying to think back through my career. I don't know that. I've had any scenarios like that where they're like, yeah, this, this just isn't for me. And I want to go do X, Y, and Z. What I have found throughout those conversations and one [00:41:00] sticks out to me where somebody was really struggling with their performance and We had gone through some changes as an organization.
The direction that we were going as a sales unit was a good bit different. We went from more from a transactional approach to more of a consultative approach. And so we had somebody that was a really high performer. They were known as consistently hitting, exceeding their goals. When they worked with a different manager, when they worked with me, they did well.
And then as the direction changed, the performance started to fall off. And so throughout having, these types of conversations as to, what's going on, what, how, what can I do, how can I help? I discovered ultimately what was happening was when they were performing under the old model,I had a few honeypots, great accounts that constantly produced, they kept me going.
So I really didn't have to [00:42:00] do a whole heck of a lot of new prospecting, new business, things like that. So when we shifted and those accounts really weren't the priority now, and then they were responsible to go out and generate and drum up this new business in a much more consultative approach, they were struggling.
So as we, once we unpacked that and realized, okay, here's what the problem is. Then we're able to sit down and start to role play the conversations, build out their territory, understand, what should we be saying? What's the top track to these clients? And start to go through some meetings and calls together where I could model, the best way to do that, the performance turn.
So by, being comfortable enough and having that true conversation coming from a place of, I want to help. This isn't, Hey, why aren't you performing anymore and being what I like to call a do more manager? Hey, sales are down. I need you to do more. It's Oh, okay. Like I hadn't thought of that before, So it just, the reason I want to talk today is I see you [00:43:00] have the potential. I know you've done well before. It's not happening now. What's different? What do we need to do? How can I help? How can I be here to support you? It
Shawn Buttner: comes back to that curiosity aspect, which is awesome. All right, cool. so from other questions I had highlighted here,
Oh, so I had switching tracks here, but, so I have a belief that we talk about like organizational burnout. that a lot of it comes down to leadership not communicating why what you're doing is important. having worked at big corporations where that wasn't the case and that definitely was the case, it's night and day how that can really shape a worker or employee's experience.
I was curious, how do you, or how have you as your, from your perspective as an expert leader or expert [00:44:00] in leadership, think about handling like organizational burnout? There's a broad topic. Maybe we can get in specific things there, but
Scott D'Amico: I think there's two big components to it that will lead to the one that you hit on.
I wholeheartedly agree with where organizations not communicating or not communicating well enough the context, the why this is important, where we're going. I'll touch on that in a second. I think the other one is where there is a disconnect between what the organization is sharing as important, what's our mission, what's our core values, and then their behaviors.
When you have a disconnect between your words and your actions, it breeds distrust. That distrust will quickly turn into employee burnout. Because if you have A culture where there is that strong alignment between what we say is important and what we actually do, the behaviors that back it up, people will.
[00:45:00] more often than not, go above and beyond for you. I've experienced it personally as an individual contributor, as a early on manager, even in the organization that I am now as a senior leader here with my boss, who's the CEO and the owner of the organization. There is that alignment between what's important and the actions that come out of it.
So I am willing to run through walls to do things, but I've seen it on the flip side in other organizations where I've been at where there is. definitely not that connection. And it very quickly burns people off because they feel like, why am I doing this? I don't know. I'm just going to get cut. They're going to do another reorder.
They're going to do this, whatever it may be, or they're going to change my goals on me, cut my comp, but to that first point of. Communication and not necessarily communicating the why, and to avoid burnout, to avoid stress and frustration. This is especially important during times of change and turmoil.
[00:46:00] So if your company is going through a big reorg, or maybe your industry is going through a season of volatility. whatever it may be. There's a lot of change maybe going on. As a leader, you need to be communicating often and thoughtfully. And there's a thin line between, I would say, communicating often and over communicating too much, where it becomes noise.
But the thoughtful component really is key. And I just remember during times at my prior employer where we went through lots of change, lots of turnover, restructures, reorgs, reductions in force, where everybody was on edge. And then we would get an email from, the C suite or an executive leader.
With a 30 minute calendar invite, update call. That's all that's in it. And a phone number. And I vividly remember I'm driving down the road one time and I called them. I think I was maybe one level below them in the organ. I'm like, you need to update that calendar [00:47:00] invite. I can tell you what everyone is thinking right now.
Please send out an update because I was already getting text messages and phone calls and email. I'm like, I don't know what this is about. I will find out. And they're like, Oh no, it's nothing bad. It's just, I'm like, be clear in your communications, especially during these Times of change. Then the other thing is when you're going through these times of change, being able to clearly communicate what's the most important thing.
And during one of these periods of change, I remember when I was leading an industry vertical within the sales organization. It was relatively new, the sales cadence was different, the products we were going to be selling were different, and they were not fully baked yet, but we were, in essence, building the car as it was going down the road, and every time I would head out to HQ for leadership meetings, When I came back, the absolute [00:48:00] first thing I did was I scheduled a call with my team.
Say, Hey, just want to share a few updates, all good as to, what we talked about while I was out in, whatever city I was in and just bring you up to speed. So one, I gave them very timely communication to let them know everything that I could let them know that I knew that I was able to share.
And then I would talk about what's the most important thing. And during this time, the most important thing that we could do, even though our products weren't fully baked, we didn't necessarily know the exact pricing models. The most important thing we can do is get in front of our clients. Discover what are their human capital challenges at the moment and then determine, will we be able to help them bring it back?
Let's figure out, can we help with this most important thing? Get in front of your clients and have those discovery calls. So you give your team that true North. During those times of change, even if you don't have all the pieces of the puzzle yet, it keeps them engaged, it keeps them motivated, and then just continue to communicate with them [00:49:00] throughout.
Shawn Buttner: that's such a concise way to put, but I guess I would call it like change management,in that bucket. And it is so important, especially in a world where we're constantly new things are happening at lightning speed. Yes.okay, so the question at the top of the conversation or discussion today is why you need to step into leadership to fully realize your meaningful revolution.
So I think there's a parallel here to this change conversation. We're just happening. So if someone is. to find their true north, right? And you have to take a little bit of you're trying to discover what my why is, and how could you have this leadership conversation with yourself to be like, okay, like, how am I going to step up in my [00:50:00] career at my job?
How am I going to maybe step into making a, Personal change in my life that'll make me a better human being. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Scott D'Amico: I think it goes back to asking yourself, what's important to me? What excites me? What motivates me? What drives me? And I will say for some people, it's not moving into a, what I'll call traditional people, leadership position.
They don't want it. And 1000%, nothing wrong with that. I have people on my team that have been very clear. I don't want to be a people leader. I like what I'm doing. I want to continue to grow in my job, maybe take on some more responsibilities. I don't want the perceived headache of being a people leader.
And there definitely can be some of those on any given day. So I think it's going back to doing that reflection and. Being self aware. Maybe here's [00:51:00] what I want, here's ultimately where I want to go with my life, with my career, great, good thing to map out. Am I equipped to do it today? Yes, no, maybe. If not, am I willing to do what it takes to get there?
Some people, they may realize, no, I don't have it in me, for whatever reason. That could be constraints that they have on time, resources, and other things. But you really have to take that hard look whenever you're making a big change. And when I left my prior organization and came over to Communispond almost seven years ago, so probably around this time, seven years ago, I was making a list.
I was like, Santa Claus is making my list. I was checking it twice. I realized I had been at my prior employer for a little over 10 years. That's a big milestone in a [00:52:00] career to be at the same place for a decade. I started thinking, okay, is this the gold watch? Am I going to be here for another 20 years?
Have I done what I ultimately set out to accomplish? Am I going to be able to do what I want to do here? And ultimately it turned up, no, it was not going to be the place for me for the rest of my career. I absolutely enjoyed my time there. I grew a tremendous amount. They invested in my growth and development a lot, and I'm forever grateful for all that I learned while I was there, but I also realized, it's time for something new.
I've been here over a decade. So I started making a list of, for my next opportunity, what are the things that I am looking for? What would make me make that move? And as things typically happen, as I was going through this exercise, I was approached by two different organizations, very different organization.
Communispond has been around for 50 plus years,focusing a lot [00:53:00] on, in person and in live virtual instructor training. Deliver training and then an ed tech startup type of company, different sides of the country, different products, different, the sales cycle is so much different. And then in different phases, very much established company with a great set of tried and true products.
newer company that's trying to break into the B2B sales space. And so fortunately I had gone through this exercise and with all the change and turnover that I had been through in my prior job, I realized, I didn't want to go somewhere to build. I wanted to go somewhere, maybe remodel a little bit, right?
The foundation was good. you had, Good bones. Maybe it just needed a little bit of tweaking here and there. And so that's ultimately what led me to Communispond is I felt great about the company's history, great products, excellent client [00:54:00] base, been very well known and respected in the space.
And the other one that I was interviewing with. Ultimately within, I think 18 months disbanded that unit. It just, they were a B2C company. They just weren't really equipped to do B2B and didn't necessarily have the patience to do B2B correctly. So I think if you just go through those exercises and really get a little introspective, it's like, Hey, what's important to me?
What do I want in my next phase? It'll serve you well.
Shawn Buttner: Awesome. Yeah. I love having the clarity conversation with people because it all really does start to, if you don't have the vision,you perish as you finish that phrase or you get lost at sea, the analogies add up. so I have one more kind of quick question because this is something I've been super nerding out about myself, as someone that came from technology and AI and how.
AI probably is impacting communication. [00:55:00] People auto writing emails. I'm curious if you have a thought on as a leader, as a salesperson, as a communicator, any, use cases or concerns you have around. AI just to switch it up a bit. So
Scott D'Amico: yeah, AI is a tremendously powerful tool. I use it on a regular basis.
So I think the big thing, and I've read this in a number of places is that the people who will do well in the future with AI are the people that know how to communicate with it. Because the output that you're going to get from any type of AI tool is only going to be as good as the input. The input, I don't need to say the input that goes into it.
That's redundant, right? The output is going to be based on the inputs, whether it's chat GPT or any of the other tools, if you're trying to get something out of it, you need to know how to be able to communicate with it. The second component is I think there's some great benefits with using AI.
[00:56:00] Especially from a coaching standpoint, some of the things that we're exploring right now to help reinforce and extend the learning that people get in our classes. So for us, we're all about behavioral change. So when people come to us, they go through our trainings within from the morning of day one to the afternoon of day two, we see transformative change in people in their communication and public speaking skills.
What we don't want is that to be short lived. So if they don't have opportunities to practice, just like going to the gym, those muscles are going to fade away. Those skills will fade away. Any type of skills, whether it's coding a computer or delivering an impactful presentation, if you don't practice.
You're going to lose them. So we provide our students with lots of tools and resources to use after the class. You short form videos, mastery checklist, access to thought leadership stuff. But the big thing we're looking at right now is how do we leverage AI to [00:57:00] provide feedback and coaching to people beyond the class.
So when the coach is no longer there, they have a tool, an AI powered tool where they can upload a video. They can open up the camera, do a mock presentation. It's going to give them feedback of your pace is way too fast. It should be X words per minute. You're at this every other word out of your mouth was, or you're slouching or you're a bad habit of mine is I swivel in my chair when I'm in a swively chair.
So it's going to start to pick up on those things. And. give people feedback to drive that behavioral change forward,
Shawn Buttner: right? that's super fascinating. yeah, I'll send you something after this, that, I talked with a psychologist that was using AI as like a initial fact gathering coach for her practice, which is really cool.
But, with that said, Scott, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Would you mind, telling people where they can follow up with you, at, and, maybe anything you loved about [00:58:00] our conversation today?
Scott D'Amico: Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Shawn, for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. I love talking about this stuff.
The best way for anyone to connect with me would be on LinkedIn. So you can find me, Scott D'Amico at Communispond on LinkedIn.feel free to send me a connection request. Always enjoy connecting with folks there. I put a lot of content out between my personal page and our company page around tips and strategies for improving your communication skills.
I host a podcast called CommuniCast where I bring business leaders on from all walks of life. So it's some pretty. Fascinating guests from leaders at fortune 50 companies to recently had the owner of the Savannah bananas, the viral baseball team, that's taking over Tik TOK and Instagram, just to talk about how communication has impacted their lives and their careers.
That's the best way to get ahold of me. And for this [00:59:00] conversation, I just love the. Really the talk about the connection between communication and leadership. But then also the thing that gets me going and really fuels the fire, so to speak, is how these skills impact every single aspect of our lives.
We've all been communicating in essence, since we were born. Think of a baby crying because it's hungry all the way through. you're communicating one way and another. All day, every day at work and at home. So these skills really can make a big impact. And I just always get so excited when we hear from somebody that says, I took your course 25, 30 years ago, it changed my career.
I want to put my team through it now. the feedback that we get from the courses is just so fun to see because I know these skills will help people's lives.
Shawn Buttner: Absolutely. I believe in that also, which is why we had you [01:00:00] on, which, yeah, I have so many pages of notes. We'll have your LinkedIn and the show notes below.
And again, Scott, thank you so much for being on the Meaningful Revolution podcast. My pleasure, Shawn. Thanks for having me.
Shawn Buttner: you might. Worry about missing an amazing episode of The Meaningful Revolution especially since it's about leadership. So what if you got a weekly newsletter that shared the episode of the week about leadership, some secret extra content, and more, set directly to your inbox?
you can. You can join The Meaningful Revolution newsletter for free, And never miss an episode of the podcast. When you sign up, you'll be able to select from a curated playlist with some of my favorite topics we've done up into this point. So AI or creators or personal development. I'll be adding leadership after this season.
So we'll continue to add to that curated list. [01:01:00] And if you're on the newsletter already, you'll you're getting the updated Episodes every week. So you're not missing out. So don't miss out. Go to meaningfulrevolution. com, which is in the show notes below to sign up again for free, get your curated playlist of episodes.
You can listen to right now and really just nerd out together on a particular topic that you're passionate about. Like I said, this season's going to be leadership and I look forward to nerding out. With you there.
